Darren Hayes Depot

DS Interview: Darren Hayes
Different Scene
John Marrs
August 17. 2011

No matter where in the world you were in the late 1990s, there were very few places to escape the music of Savage Garden. Seemingly appearing from nowhere, Australian duo Darren Hayes and Daniel Johns had a string of hits with I Want You, Truly Madly Deeply and Affirmation on regular rotation on both the radio and television. Then after four brief years, they suddenly split up.

While Daniel went behind the scenes into music production, Darren carved out a solo career, and is about to release his fourth solo album, Secret Codes and Battleships.

Darren was used to being a fiercely private musician, revealing little about his personal life and steering clear of celebrity until June 2006. When suddenly, he announced via his website that he was gay, and that he’d just married his boyfriend Richard Cullen, an animator and music video director.

As soon as DS enters the room in swanky private member’s meeting place The Hospital Club, Darren’s beaming grin makes it obvious he’s in a good place in life. He’s a year shy of turning 40, but looks years younger, with his svelte physique, dark blonde stubble and collar-length wavy hair. For a man who’s already spent the day being interviewed and admits to suffering jetlagged, he’s also remarkably chirpy and open.

Your biggest hit songs have been about love. Is it easier or harder to write when you’re in a stable, happy relationship?
It’s impossible because when you’re happy, you get fat and never want to do any work! I’m like the John Travolta of pop – whenever he doesn’t work, he gets fat and I do just the same. I’m incredibly happy and so grateful I have such a beautiful relationship.

Has there ever been a time when you’ve thought of quitting music?
There was a point in 2007 where I felt very confused and I wasn’t happy at all. I felt heartbroken over where I was in my life and what my purpose was. My relationship with Richard was the only thing I could rely on. I’m such a control freak, I was used to being the captain of my own ship steering the wheel. Then suddenly, I had to put my hands up and admit I didn’t know if I was any good at this any more. I had a crisis of confidence. But it made for great songs.

You came out to your fans in your 30s. Do you regret not doing it earlier?
No, the only thing I regret in life is the occasional bad hairstyle! I’m proud of the way I’ve conducted my life and that I’ve never tried to be a celebrity.

Was being gay an easy thing to come to terms with?
I never lied about who I was, but I found it difficult. Back then, I might have been the only gay person in the world who was homophobic because I actually hated myself. When I was growing up, I didn’t have a role model or somebody I could look up to so I didn’t even realise I was gay. I thought I had an attraction to men and that it was normal, but I shouldn’t talk about it. Then unfortunately me working out who I was, coincided with global fame.

That must have been tough.
It was really difficult and very isolating. My generation, I hope, is the last of the tortured generation regarding coming to terms with being gay and then coming out. Announcing it by doing an interview and being on the cover of a magazine isn’t how I live my life. And I didn’t want my fans to find out through a newspaper report because I didn’t want it to send a message that it was a secret. So I blogged about it, then took a year off and didn’t milk it.

How has Richard changed your life?
Had I come out before I’d met partner Richard, I don’t know if I’d have been here. I’ve never had a problem with drugs or alcohol but I absolutely suffered from depression. I’d go so far to say I was suicidal when I figured out who I was as a person. It took me lots of therapy and anti-depressants to deal with the fact I’m normal and it was OK to be gay.

Did you know he was ‘the one’ straight away?
When I met him, he completed the missing piece in me. I saw in him, the person I wanted to be in myself. He was so comfortable with who he was and through loving him, I forgave myself and admitted I was a whole person. It was a no-brainer; I wanted to marry him instantly.

And coming out isn’t just a one off process, is it?
No, the idea of coming out is something that continues for the rest of your life. When you go to a flower seller and they ask ‘who’s the lucky lady?’ or you’re on a plane chatting to someone and they ask you if you’re married with kids, you come out all over again. You never stop! One day it won’t matter, but we’re at the dregs of a generation where it’s still an elephant in the room.

How did the news affect your career?
I don’t know. I wouldn’t have it any other way though, because to get to a certain point in my career and to not be out would be deceptive. I’m violently opposed to lying about who you are but there will always be people who are homophobic. If they don’t want to buy my music because of my sexuality, then my music isn’t for them, simple as that.

You became world-famous from 1997 onwards with songs like “To The Moon And Back” and “I Knew I Loved You.” What do you remember about that time?
Not that much! It was like being put on the world’s fastest rollercoaster and not getting the chance to appreciate everything around me. We (Darren and band-mate Daniel Jones) had the necessary indestructible self-confidence to get though it, but I don’t remember a lot about it. I do remember being exhausted all the time. Like in America, for example. We’d be on a three planes a day visiting three cities for four weeks doing press, radio tours and impromptu gigs. But that pace and workload means you can’t connect people or appreciate what you’ve got. However, it’s an incredible opportunity that changed my life forever.

Savage Garden split up after two albums. Could you have gone on for longer?
It was the perfect time. At the time, it was premature as I never wanted to be a solo artist and was pissed off with Daniel very publically the way he ended it, but I forgave him and all’s well that ends well. So I’m grateful we ended on a high and that we didn’t dwindle out. We dodged a bullet because music did a 90-degree turn after that. The moment I put my solo record out, pop disintegrated. Justin Timberlake changed everything with his fusion of r’n’b and hip-hop. Savage Garden wouldn’t have made sense and we’d have had a very graceless fall. It took a long time for another band to come along and sound like us–Maroon 5.

Would you and Daniel get back together in the future?
Daniel and I aren’t in touch and there’s no chance of a reunion. I don’t want to do it and I don’t need to.

As a solo artist, would you like to be selling more than you did with Savage Garden?
A friend told me once: ‘You have to accept the thing you are always going to be most famous for is in the past.’ And I do accept that, so it freed me up. I realised I don’t have to top the sales of the band because I’m not the band. Because I was the singer and one half of the song writing duo, I get to carry that with me instead. I had this incredible commercial success with Savage Garden and then I became a solo artist who sold two million copies of his first solo album. But in the record industry that was considered to be a failure. I was burned by that. I’m not Justin Timberlake or Robbie Williams–I’m an awkward male pop star. I’m strange and hard to pigeonhole. I think of Michael Jackson and his Thriller album. The poor man never really got over his own expectations–he expected to outdo himself with his music and nobody who recorded Thriller could have done that. Whereas I don’t expect to have more success than Savage Garden. I just want to be better at what I do.

Some solo artists who came from bands, like Morrissey and Ian Brown, refuse to sing the songs that made them famous. How about you?
I’ve never stopped singing Savage Garden songs. I’m very proud of them. I see Savage Garden as my first love, but I’d never have married my first love. I was never meant to stay there forever.

Had you not made it in a band, would have gone down the reality TV show route, like X Factor?
Sure, but I’d have crashed, burned and failed miserably! I was a diamond in the rough when I started. I got my career through a Wanted advert, and shows like X Factor are the same thing.

Stars like Sting and Elton John criticize those kind of shows…
It’s pretentious when people do that because it’s so hard out there to get started in the business. I’ve guest judged on Australian Idol and mentored contestants for Australian X Factor and it was often heartbreaking. Off-camera, I kept telling people I thought they were amazing and that I’d have put them though. Who am I to tell someone they’re not for the music industry? I’ve had so many doors shut in my face, from my father to teachers, but I was always meant to do this. If I didn’t have that innate sense of self, I’d never have survived.

How does your new album differ to your previous work?
This is the first record where I’ve asked people to take me seriously since 2004. My last album, This Delicate Thing We’ve Made, was my rebellious streak. It was a strange 25-song double album with only one or two songs that could be played on the radio. It was a bit sobering. Then I did a side project, a free download album called We Are Smug, that I gave away–it was a kind of ‘fuck you’ record. I wanted to do all the strange stuff and get it out of my system and then decide if I wanted to make another pop record again.

So you doubted whether you wanted to stay in the music industry?
No. But every time I’ve made a record, even from the first Savage Garden album, I have a period where I sit back and ask myself if I want to do it again. It takes a little while to want to, as certain aspects like all the attention I get aren’t good for the soul. So I’ve always gone away, fallen in love with the process again and then crawled back to it!

So is this a return to pop?
Yes. This record is me rolling up my sleeves and saying ‘Okay, I’ve been avoiding writing classic pop songs for the radio, but now I’m back.’ I could never have been forced to do it. If someone had said ‘go and write another Truly Madly Deeply’ I’d have said ‘But I’ve already written it.’ I’m honest enough to admit, there’s a fear of trying, as there’s always a chance to fail. If you say to the world you’ve made a song and you think it’s a hit, and it doesn’t become one, you’ve failed. Not having a hit doesn’t bother me, but putting myself out there has always been difficult. I also had to find my sound. Each time I’ve made a record I’ve always looked different and sounded different.

Do you ask for impartial opinions on your music?
Yes, because when you’re a pop star it’s easy to surround yourself with people who tell you you’re fabulous. But that doesn’t help you. And you need a strong feeling of self, and I’ve always had that. So for this record, I invited critique in. 80 per cent of what people thought, I said ‘no you’re talking rubbish’ to, but 20 per cent of the time they were right!

You seem incredibly enthusiastic about this album.
I haven’t been this busy or had this much airplay in such a long time. I haven’t been played on Radio Two in ten years until now! So I’m going with the flow, doing a small tour in the UK and hopefully it’ll expand into something else next year.
I’d love this album to help me reconnect with a wider audience, but I’m okay if it doesn’t.

Darren Hayes’ new single “Talk Talk Talk” is available to download now. His new album Secret Codes and Battleships will be released later in the year.

EQ Audio Interview With Darren Hayes from EQ Video on Vimeo.

Sonic Shocks
Darren Hayes Interview
Dan Balchin

Sonic Shocks recently had the opportunity to catch up with the one and only Darren Hayes. Perhaps best known for his work with Savage Garden, but now stands proud as a truly magnificent solo artist. His new album ‘Secret Codes and Battleships’ will be coming very soon! Check out DarrenHayes.com for more info….

Darren: Dan, its Darren

Sonic Shocks: How are you Darren?

Darren: So sorry we’re late. I’d love to blame somebody else, but it’s just because I won’t shut up. But now I won’t shut up for you (laughs)

Sonic Shocks: To be honest, only the most interesting people ever run over don’t they…

Darren: That’s such a nice thing to say

Sonic Shocks: Had you been on time, I would have been concerned

Darren: (laughs)

Sonic Shocks: Now, I’d like to start chronologically and discuss pre-music careers, is that ok?

Darren: Go for it!

Sonic Shocks: Is it correct that you were a pre-school teacher? And did a bit of journalism?

Darren: True and true, yeah. Truthfully, I was always going to be a signer. I was singing from about the age five. I feel like I was really meant to do this and I went through all those clichés musicians and artists talk about. They always talk about being leads in musicals, I was a theatrical kid and I was directing my own version of Michael Jackson’s Thriller when I was six. I was always that person winning theatre bursaries and got sent off to theatre camps and the such like. My teachers were very supportive and nurturing and said that’s what I would end up doing. My father on the other hand was not very supportive at all and because I did quite well at school and always got good grades, he was mortified when I wanted to go off and get into performance. So, it was kind of one of those things where I went to university to please my old man. In the meantime I was in bands and that was eventually how I met Daniel Jones, the other guy in Savage Garden. But when we did eventually get a record deal, I was still at University studying. I did a semester of journalism and then quit because you had to do a grammar test and I found that pretty dull (laughs). So I auditioned to be an actor and go to this theatre course. Something like six people only could get in, for a year. My father told me that if I did it, I’d end up in the gutter. So, cutting a long story short, I did a teaching course to shut him up.

Sonic Shocks: Right, ok. Then you proved him wrong…

Darren: Well yeah. The thing is, I never really finished that degree because I left to make an album. The trouble was, it sat on the shelf for about a year and I had to crawl back to Brisbane and because I had done three years at University, it qualified me to a substitute teacher. So I did that for a year. I was a kindergarten teacher for a year whilst the album sat on the shelf.

Sonic Shocks: What is really interesting, at least to me, is that I do music journalism, as well as some work as an early year’s teacher. I feel like I’m the next Darren Hayes, what do you think?

Darren: I tell you what; it’s a nice day when you go into work. I had a six month contract and I went into school to see my kids and even though I was more of a musical clown than a teacher, I loved it. I actually quit my job the day all the kids came in and said ‘I saw your music video on TV’. I thought to myself ‘success, success’. I adore kids and I feel pretty passionately about education and that we don’t pay teachers enough money. I think that if you want to change the world, give a child a great start in education and a hero to believe in. All my hero’s were teachers. My music teacher especially, but all of my hero’s were teachers.

Sonic Shocks: Obviously, I may need to knock on your door for a few vocal lessons first if you don’t mind? Of course, I don’t want you to feel that I will be a huge threat to your career.

Darren: (laughs) You’re probably a better teacher though!

Sonic Shocks: You responded to an ad in a local paper for a lead singer to join Savage Garden. Is that still a place where musicians find each other or has the internet taken that aspect away?

Darren: You know what; I think it has just changed. I don’t know what musicians use now, maybe MySpace or Facebook. It’s the public side of music. I do think that if you look at artists like Claire Maguire. She began by promoting herself on MySpace and approaching producers. In some ways I suppose it makes it easier, but you are right, as people now bombard everybody. It all becomes a little bit like a hard sell. Back then it was like putting a message in a bottle. I read this one ‘wanted’ ad and it was like a scene from a movie. It was the first audition I ever went to for a band and truthfully, we were a terrible band. First of all they sort of fibbed to me, as they said they were on the verge of signing a major publishing contract and all they needed was a lead singer. The publishing contract of course never materialised and we became a pretty dodgy covers band called Red Edge. But, Daniel Jones was one of those members and we connected. We had the same ambitions and we formed a bit of a mutiny and left to make our own team, I guess.

Sonic Shocks: I am a firm believer in everything happening for a reason. It all seemed to come together.

Darren: I think you’re right. At that time, it was quite magical for me. It was the same feeling you might have when you propose to somebody. Having your life flash before your eyes (laughs). When I left my first audition, my whole world changed in a nano second. It was terrifying, but I knew.

Sonic Shocks: I must also thank you actually because the song ‘Truly Madly Deeply’ and my ability to recite the lyrics to ‘I Want You’ without reading them secured me my first girlfriend. Presumably fans from all over the world tell you how certain songs have affected them, or indeed saved them from life situations – is that a describable feeling?

Darren: It is an incredible honour and it is very humbling. It is very hard actually to respond to that, because I am a fan, just like you them. It is very difficult to accept that honour without coming off as egotistical. What I try to do instead is take it as a reassurance that I am doing something right. Music has a special place for all of us. It’s one of those things like scent memory, like if you smell a perfume or something cooking in the kitchen, it transports you back to a moment in time. Very few things have that apart from music. Music can make you burst into tears, it can make you stand up for something you believe in, it can release tension and help you get a girlfriend (laughs) or get over a break up. To be invited into people’s lives in that way is truly an incredible honour. I think the only way to understand how to do that is to not try. All of those records that people have a connection to, I had a connection first. I wrote them truthfully, for me. That kind of sincerity is something we should demand from our music. Of course, sometimes I fail miserably, but that is where I start from, for me.

Sonic Shocks: So, during the interim period between Savage Garden and stepping forward as a solo artist, did you used to write music for so called ‘popstars’ coming off of various TV ‘talent’ shows?

Darren: I’ve never tried to do that until recently. I actually did it to get my toe back into the water. I signed a deal with Sony ATV and was introduced to different writers, who I would never have met otherwise. It was actually Simon Cowell’s label Syco who said ‘we really love your song writing. Would you like to write for other people?’ Now, what that process showed me that I am an artist. However, I do find it really difficult to give my songs up adoption. I now know instantly when I write a song, if it is for me, or someone else. I’ve yet to have success with other people having hits with my records actually and I suspect it is because I have such difficulty in letting my songs go. I pour so much of myself into my demos and the feedback I often get is ‘this is such a beautiful song. It sounds like a Darren Hayes song’. Sometimes I hit notes and sing in such a way that not everybody can sing it that way. I don’t think that my songs are the easiest to cover for other people really. They are very uniquely me.

Sonic Shocks: I suppose it is similar to when Movie scripts are written and it’s often suggested that certain parts were perfect for specific actors or actresses. Of course, where music is concerned, I imagine you, as a writer understands the mood, tone and feeling behind the lyrics.

Darren: Yeah, but it was a great process, because I met a lot of people I worked on the album with. I remember calling up my management company and saying (whispers) I’ve written this great pop song, do you think this is my sound? Am I crazy? And they responded by saying ‘We think you’re crazy for doubting it!’ It was a really great confidence booster for me.

Sonic Shocks: Now, you’ve flirted with releases over the past few years, but are you calling ‘Secret Codes and Battleships’ the official ‘return’ to pop music?

Darren: I think everyone is. I haven’t said that myself, because I think that’s a lot of pressure. What I can say is that this is a proper, ambitious pop album. It is me certainly rolling up my sleeves. I started off with the opportunity to write some very accessible records, records that belonged on the radio and made sense. None of it was by design and that was what I was I tended to good at. I had enjoyed make less commercial and more experimental records for various records. But truthfully, I’ve always had a fear of trying to succeed. It’s kind of easy to be strange, because you can break all the rules. Now, with this album it’s different. One thing I can never be accused of is repeating myself. My hair is never the same; my music is never the same. This is like a master class of everything I have learned over the years. It reminds me of the first Savage Garden album, because of the scope and how disciplined I was in writing songs that might have the opportunity to survive one hundred years. If I’ve written on of those in my career, then I’ve won. I think one of those is ‘Truly, Madly, Deeply’ and I think of those might exist on this record.

Sonic Shocks: Yes, I am hopeful that one of those songs can secure me another girlfriend once again.

Darren: (laughs) You know, if I can’t on this record, then the order has been placed. I’ve sent it off to head office and we’ll see what we can do for you.

Sonic Shocks: (laughs)

Sonic Shocks: Being a Star Wars fan, you must surely link some Darren Hayes based Battleship merchandise out of this?

Darren: That is a really good question actually. Wow, you know what I might do. If you look at my website, we’ve just revealed the album cover. It has taken a year to make this cover and it has been inspired by a lot of things, like Fleetwood Mac, Sgt. Peppers, Dangerous by Michael Jackson. It is completely flooded with imagery. I guess I look like a knight in the middle. But, perhaps there is a fan out there who can recreate it with a Star Wars theme?

Sonic Shocks: I think that would be incredible

Darren: (laughs)

Sonic Shocks: How about Darren Hayes written in the Star Wars font, you in some kind of suit. That would be perfect. Maybe even adapt it for a stage show? You can have that one on me, that’s ok.

Darren: (laughs) Any chance I get to stick Star Wars into my career, I’ve done it. If you look at my stage or pictures, they’re always a bit Jedi like. But that’s between you and I, right? (laughs)

Sonic Shocks: I’ll keep this quiet, don’t worry.

Sonic Shocks: You’re doing a ‘secret tour’ in Australia, even though it’s not as secret as the name might suggest. Are you doing anything equally secretive in the UK?

Darren: Yes, there are four dates in the UK this October. London, Liverpool, Birmingham and Glasgow. I’m working once again with Willie Williams – the designer for U2. He’s done all of my tours actually. It’s a small, intimate tour and it’s meant to be a development, to see how the songs sound live and future ideas. Then I’m back off to Australia before coming back to do a New Year’s show in Manchester.

Sonic Shocks: Something a little off-topic, do you believe in being with the one you love on New Years? Will he be there?

Darren: I don’t think it matters to be honest. I am usually doing a show New Years Eve actually. I absolutely hate New Years Eve and the only time I have a good one is when I am doing a show and I’m with my fans. We do it every two years and we have a blast. It’s just a blast. I like to start the New Year fresh faced and not hungover, but I’m not really a fan of New Years. Actually, I’m not really a fan of Valentine’s Day either, or any day that Hallmark tells me I should buy cards for the occasion.

Sonic Shocks: To wrap up what has been a fantastic chat, please explain why you have chosen the UK as your home rather than sunny, cheerful, upbeat, spacious Australia?

Darren: Love. I came here to work on the record in 2004 and then Richard (my partner) and I have just celebrated our fifth anniversary of our civil partnership and along with getting the world’s greatest guy, I also got a British passport. We just hop between Australia and the UK. Obviously I’m based here and our dog is here. Until we depart for heavenly pastures (laughs), I couldn’t even imagine leaving him, my dog I’m talking about. So, yeah, you know what. I’ve always been nomadic and I think Australian’s are nomadic. We are born with a backpack grafted to our backs and we like to explore. I go home so much, I’m lucky. If you look at my skin and you look at the cover of my album, I’m certainly not a bronzed Aussie. Your weather suits me just right.

Sonic Shocks: I am glad you are the only person in the country who loves our weather (laughs)

Darren: You always want what you can’t have. We have two seasons in Australia, hot or not. What is great here, as an artist you just never know what another day might bring. I love it when the leaves turn and when the first chill of Winter comes. I love it when the first flowers of Spring come up. See, I didn’t have any of that as a kid growing up. Perhaps I’m still in the honeymoon phase (laughs). Ask me again in a couple of years and see if I still feel the same.

Sonic Shocks: I think you should apply to read the weather, because with those kinds of phrases, people would be a lot more upbeat listening to it. So, if it doesn’t work out with music, head over to the BBC and secure yourselves a slot.

Darren: (laughs) Maybe I will if it doesn’t pan out!

Sonic Shocks: Darren, it has been a real pleasure and thank you for taking the time to speak with me today.

Darren:Thank you for the smart questions, it really makes or breaks us. You’ve been lovely.

Sonic Shocks: Best of luck with the album. I know it’s going to bring you back and I look forward to seeing you live with some kind of Battleship arrangement.

Darren: (laughs) Just you wait!